YOURLITE Wall Switch & Outlets, large-capacity saddle-shaped terminal blocks, one-piece molding, ABS+Cu panel, create a comfortable atmosphere and bring convenience to your home.
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Different options: Supply 1/2 gang, 1 Gang Switch&1 Gang 2 Way Switch&2 Gang Switch&2 Gang 2 Way Switch&Shucko Socket&Shucko Socket Double, with Europe and American Standard. Suitable for homes, offices, hotels, hospitals and so on.
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Awesome comments guys, let me try to answer some of the questions &#; sorry, just getting back from vacation! Went to Yosemite
joakim.jalden:
joakim.jalden:
This said, what is the reason for the focus on a horizontal led as opposed to the vertical led used in North America? For me a vertical led, where up rather than right or left means more light, seems more intuitive. It would also seem slightly easier to press up and down on the switch if the small smart buttons were vertically arranged to the side.
Great question &#; There are a couple of reasons:
- We eventually want to come out with 2 and 3-Gang options and use as much of the tooling as we could to save on costs (tooling is usually around $20-30k USD - in this case it varied from $35k to $27k). Most of the non-smart and smart switches we looked at from a 2 and 3 Gang option looked like this:
It looks like it&#;s a square that is evenly divided into 3 sections to create 2 or 3 rectangles. The dimensions looked the same across most of the switches we found, so we wanted to keep it consistent for people who may not be used to smart switches (and so we didn&#;t look like some Chinese knockoff that had a wild design)
- We did a couple PCB layouts and the horizontal LED Bar with the horizontal plastic piece on top seemed to be the most cost effective vs running it down the right or left side
- Honestly, I just thought it looked more aesthetically pleasing with the horizontal bar, but I know this is preference
That said, this is your switch and I want you all to be happy with it. Plus, you guys know the market better than me, so I&#;m happy to explore the vertical LED Bar again. Are you thinking something like this?
joakim.jalden:
joakim.jalden:
I don&#;t see the point of the lux sensor if there is not also a presence sensor. For me, the main appeal of a lux sensor would be to condition presence based automations to turn the light on and off on the ambient room light level. However, if the switch does not have a presence sensor built in one has to arrange a separate presence sensor anyway and these usually already come with a lux sensor, so the lux sensor on the switch become redundant. You did not mention it under highlights, but any chance of the built in mmWave precense sensor? For me that would be a game changer because it would allow us to avoid a separate presence sensor which in the case of mmWave is tricky to install in a nice way due to the need for constant power. Also, an unnecessary &#;dot&#; on the switch makes it slightly harder to convince the more style conscious members of the household to install them.
I can see where you&#;re coming from here and I don&#;t necessarily disagree. I think I wanted to put it in there because it would just be another way to automate your lights (ie: lights come on when it&#;s dark, off when it&#;s light, etc). However, if you guys want to scrap this sensor, I&#;m not opposed to it as it would save on costs (not much, but some) and if it&#;s not beneficial, then there&#;s no need for it.
Regarding mmWave, I think @Bry hit the nail on the head here with his comment. I&#;d love to launch an mmWave switch in EU and plan to do so if sales on the base unit warrant it. This is a brand new market for us and if we added an mmWave sensor, we&#;re looking at a price-point of around $90-100 USD, which would be a hefty price point for a brand that no one has ever heard of in the EU. While I believe in us and I believe it would be worth it, I just fear that with the MOQ&#;s being so much higher, it would be a tough sell and we&#;d end up losing money or not gain enough momentum to fund the switch.
I also want to see how the mmWave switch performs here in the US first before trying it elsewhere. We do have a lot of sales so far and the switch is performing well in our internal testing, however, I know there will be issues in the field once we start selling it (as all switches do initially) and it&#;s going to be hard to troubleshoot across multiple languages (unfortunately, we&#;re your typical American&#;s&#; we only speak English). Whereas our Blue Series 2-1 (Dimmer) switch has been in the market for 2+ years and we&#;ve ironed out all the bugs and (hopefully) we won&#;t run into any issues if we launch the same switch with the same firmware in the EU.
joakim.jalden:
joakim.jalden:
Also, in terms of sensors (lux, presence, temperature, and humidity), unless the economy of scale simply makes it cheaper to manufacture and stock only one version, it would make sense to have one version with and one version without them. I will install these in rows of all from one to four switches, and having (and paying for) four sets of sensors all placed on top of each other seems a bit redundant, especially on top of the temperature and humidity sensors I already have in each room. I would generally think of these type of sensors on a per room basis, so one switch per room with built in sensors would be enough.
Yeah this is a good point and you&#;re having me lean more towards just scrapping the lux sensor on this switch and putting it on a future mmWave switch like we are doing here in the US. The cost of these sensors is also pretty small, so I just figured we&#;d add them as an added bonus (I&#;m talking like $0.30/sensor, so not that big of a deal).
arttu:
arttu:
What are the finalized tech specifications, as in how is the dimming done since there are multiple ways depending on the lighting fixture and if a dimmable LED driver is used (pushdim)?
I don&#;t have the final specs yet as they just priced it on the parts and we haven&#;t done any testing yet on it, but I will for sure let everyone know an estimate before putting it up for sale. Are there any requirements you&#;d like us to meet?
Regarding dimming, I plan to have it act the same way as our US version which allows for both Leading and Trailing Edge (depending on if you have a neutral wire or not).
Sager supply professional and honest service.
rardelange:
rardelange:
Otherwise in dont think this switch is very different to other switches exept the led and de favo little switches.
Are there a lot of switches with the advanced firmware and parameters listed out here: https://help.inovelli.com/en/articles/-blue-series-2-1-switch-parameters#h_a45
Serious question, I&#;m not trying to be a jerk, I promise &#; I just didn&#;t see a ton of switches that had a lot of configuration parameters, multi-tap scene control, animated notifications, etc. Bc if there are, then yes, I would agree, we need to figure out a way to differentiate and I&#;ll have to rethink a few things.
Derb:
Derb:
I&#;d be sceptical about the precision of the temperature measurements in a mains-powered light switch. I assume that the switches would generate at least a bit of heat?
Yeah, we had to scrap the temp/humidity sensor due to the switch being a dimmer. I completely forgot the reason why we were able to put it in one of our new switches was bc it was an On/Off switch.
Declankh:
Declankh:
How deep will the switch protrude into the back box? This is vital in uk as some houses have shallow back boxes, with 25mm being used a lot.
Great question &#; I don&#;t have final dimensions yet, but I&#;ve been working with an EU expert on dimensions and he mentioned this exact sentiment. Not to mention having it work across all EU countries so I&#;m hoping it will be small enough to fit those boxes.
That said, 25mm seems pretty small. I&#;m looking at an Aqara switch made for the EU and it seems to be the same depth as our US version which is ~28.6mm.
Is that 25mm where the back of the gang-box is (as in we&#;d have to make a switch that&#;s like 15mm so that the wires would fit in, or is the 25mm your target for the switch bc the gang-box depth is somewhere around 35mm?
john.bob.duck:
john.bob.duck:
Looks like a great switch, I like the design with 2 scene buttons, and it&#;s a reasonable compromise at this time. My dreams of Thread will have to wait, it seems!
Well, this is the next step &#; I&#;m curious the protocol we all want. I&#;m trying to see if the manufacturer can produce both Zigbee and Thread in the same MOQ (as in maybe Zigbee and Thread/Matter), but historically this hasn&#;t been an option. Who knows, though, maybe they will if the demand is there.
john.bob.duck:
john.bob.duck:
The biggest question is if you can share what depth backbox the switch will require?
Yes, now you guys have me nervous haha. I&#;ve been working with a guy who&#;s extremely familiar with the EU market (he lives in both the UK and Milan and has been the CEO of a major smart home company in EU) so I&#;ve been relying on his info along with info from this thread, so I think we&#;re good, but I&#;m curious what you think the target depth should be.
john.bob.duck:
john.bob.duck:
I think you could also have another look at 3-way switching, which is pretty universal for hallways with stairs &#; in fairness, probably more important for 2-gang and 3-gang switches. Make sure there&#;s no conflicting terminology when talking to your EU contact &#; in the UK, it&#;s &#;2-way&#; for controlling 1 bulb with 2 switched, and then it&#;s &#;3-way&#; or &#;2-way and intermediate&#; for having 3 or more switches. I&#;ve only just discovered this difference myself.
Alright, let me take another look. I was on the fence personally because I think it&#;s a good feature, but figured the solve by having two smart switches bound together would be a good solution to keep the costs down on our end.
To put it in perspective, here&#;s what I&#;m up against from a cost perspective:
Option #1 = Smart Switch + Dumb Switch
In this scenario, you would have a smart switch on one end and you can leave your existing, &#;dumb&#; switch on the other end. This obviously saves the customer money by not having to purchase another smart switch, but the tradeoff is that you can&#;t have dimming at both ends (only on/off at the, &#;dumb&#; switch end). For us, it requires us to add an additional relay inside the switch and also increases the depth of the switch (which it sounds like we&#;re up against a challenge here already with that).
Option #2 = Smart Switch + Aux Switch
In this scenario, you would have a smart switch on one end and purchase a special, &#;Aux&#; switch (here&#;s our US Version: Add-On (Auxiliary) Switch &#; Inovelli). It&#;s basically a non-smart momentary switch that semi-matches our smart switch design. Whenever you press on the Aux Switch, it sends a signal via the traveler wires to turn on/off/dim the smart switch. You can also use it for multi-taps for scene control. From the customer&#;s point of view, this still saves money over purchasing another smart switch and it allows dimming from both ends of the 3-Way (as well as multi-taps) and is, in my opinion, offers everything a smart switch would except it doesn&#;t have notifications. If we went this route, Inovelli would incur more costs (tooling &#; which I guess we could share most of it with the smart switch, various certifications, etc) plus purchase an MOQ of these. The good news, however, is that we wouldn&#;t have to put an additional relay in the switch, so we could keep the depth the same. I would estimate that all-in, this would cost about $100k USD.
Option #3 = Smart Switch + Smart Switch
In this scenario, you have two smart switches that are bound together if using Zigbee or Z-Wave (Thread is another story, I have to figure that one out bc it&#;s not possible right now, you&#;re going to have to use an automation). The benefits are that you have everything the aux switch can do plus you have notifications and all your switches completely match. Expensive, I understand and I actually opt for Aux switches in my house, so I do understand the predicament.
&#;
What I think we should do is start off with Option #3 and if we sell well, we can use the profits to come out with an Aux switch. There wouldn&#;t be any sort of hardware change required to the switch (Option #1 is the only option that requires any sort of extra hardware), it would likely just need a firmware update (or we could honestly build it in from the get-go knowing that we&#;ll come out with the aux switch).
Knowing that 3-Way&#;s aren&#;t as common as Single-Pole (or 2-Ways as you mentioned), people could outfit their 2-Way&#;s first and wait for the Aux switch to come out (I know waiting is the hardest part haha).
What do you think?
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